Rollerblading with I: text as experiment in the work of Ekaterina Luzgina and Mike McShane

Concrete letters, words in a radio broadcast and poetry in three dimensions. After they graduated from Chelsea College of Art and Design in 2016 the married couple started to make art together as well. In April they completed a month-long residency, titled Text As in Campbell Works in London, where they let their mother tongues of English and Russian collide and started the search for a collective vernacular. Their work was on view previously in group and solo exhibitions in Los Angeles, London and Moscow. I spoke to Kat and Mike about their collaboration, the importance of place and the formal aspects of language. 



You work together, but also as solo artists and in collaboration with other artists, through different media and disciplines: how and where do you start?  


Our story began at Art College 6 years ago when we shared a studio for the entire 3 years. Then in our final year it all got too much and we started dating as well. However, we only started working together after we had graduated. Kat needed a photographer/driver for her project Where does sculpture go when we cannot take it home? and Mike offered to help. At that point we realised that we share a lot of common interests and decided to begin working together. Since then we have done numerous shows as a duo. However we have quite different approaches to our work.

For me, inspiration comes by setting up a method of working that allows chance or instinct to dictate the results; I like to construct games for myself and to work with pairs of things that I then aim to fuse together. I will often begin with a question that I set myself: usually that involves seeing or reading about something and then using a specific material, I will see how that idea can be translated or re-materialised into that medium. I am interested in how ideas can exist simultaneously as objects, words and images. Through my practice I am looking for how an idea changes as it moves and is translated across these mediums. 


As for me, inspiration comes from different experiences of my body in architectural and urban spaces; rollerblading, walking and climbing through these spaces informs my sculptural approach to the work I make. It also reflects in the materials I choose to use, especially when it comes to concrete and scaffolding. Another big inspiration for me is language and its potential to transcend meaning. Ideas usually come from a crossover of these two areas of inspiration and the journey from an initial idea to the outcome is when the logistics, aesthetics and context for the work is worked out.


When working with each other we start with a conversation based on a similar interest in something and, because we approach the same idea very differently, we often work individually on the same idea and then synthesise the results. During this synthesis we can be very direct and passionate with each other which can sometimes lead to emotional rollercoastering. However, through this conflict we as a pair are able to produce more thought-through and vigorous work.

When working with other people we follow a similar process but we act much calmer and are less shouty.


What were the outcomes of the Text As residency? Did you arrive at a collective vernacular? 


The idea for the Text As residency evolved from a show in Russia that we had done two months previously. The show was called какие слова (Which Words) and had stemmed from us revelling in and reflecting on our own miscommunication with each other in English and Russian. Having enjoyed working in text for that show we then wanted to use the residency to see how the meaning of words changed across mediums rather than languages. The manifesto printed during the Russian show ended up being used as the template for how we structured the residency: each of the four weeks was dedicated to a specific medium (printmaking, casting, performance and broadcasting.) Each medium used the works produced in the previous week as a material for the next one. We then decided to open up the residency to the public, through a series of workshops to see how people would engage with our ideas and ways of working.


I really enjoyed the printmaking week both as a way to develop my own practice and as an experiment in producing co-authored text works with participants of the workshops. Before the residency Mike and me developed a method that we called sequential poetry, which we implemented into the printmaking workshop. It is based on each participant printing a line of text, one after another, forming a rather abstract and vivid flow of narrative and structure that is not in the control of a single person. This way the text appeared so alive and the meaning was constantly changing after each addition made to it, gaining a performative quality.


My favourite moment was during the week of performance. The Gallery space was filled with the printed and cast concrete pieces that we had made so far and we invited a group of 15 students to come and create installations out of the objects surrounding them. Working sequentially, each person would choose either a print or sculpture, and then reading aloud the text on its surface they would arrange the pieces within the space. It created a truly spatial poetry: a fusion of gesture, spoken word and constructed visual landscape. It was at this moment I believe that we were the closest to creating a truly collective vernacular.


The project is definitely still open, and very much informs our current practice. Ultimately we would like to produce a publication that summarises and develops the ideas and work that we have explored so far.

How do you feel about the relationship between art and writing on art – since your work itself investigates reproduction of text, meaning and finding new dimensions of interpretation? 


That’s a very difficult question. Writing about Art at its best can provide new ways of looking at Art: reinvigorating the old and expanding the new. However it can also be used as a crutch or filler to support Art that is overly opaque. It depends upon the language used and the intention of the text that is produced. Personally, I prefer texts that add something to the Artwork in a creative or narrative way, that do not rely on overly clichéd academic terms and instead interact with the image or object presented in a simple and thought provoking way. Similarly, when using text within an artwork I am looking at the interaction between what it means as writing and how it is presented as an object: i.e. text has the same potential to create images or ideas within the mind of the viewer as the form of a sculpture or the image of a painting. When you begin to combine these elements, each act of collage creates new potential interpretations. It is about playing with the anticipated meaning of words in the same way you would with any other material or image.


When I use writing in art it is to create a space within which a narrative can unfold. However, this narrative is never a definitive one but instead made from fragments floating in and out of conscious meaning. They exist in the same way as I experience dreams. 


Do you like other people’s interpretations of your work; do you both share the same interpretations?


Yes, other people’s interpretations of our work are always brilliant to hear. We like to think that once we have finished a piece it is then separate from us and has a life of its own. 

No we do not share the same interpretation of our work.



You have had solo and group shows in Moscow, London and LA, using your native tongues which use different scripts for the work displayed in these different contexts.  Do viewers respond differently to the work, depending on the languages they know? Do you keep the language of the viewer in mind?


Before we started working with text there was less concern for the possibility of misinterpretation or alienation of viewers from the work depending on the language they speak/don’t speak, because it was possible to contextualize our works in both languages. Moreover, every time we exhibit in different spaces or for different audiences, even if they speak the same language, we keep the specific context of the show in mind and try to make our work accessible but also open for various interpretations. 

Nevertheless at the core of our work together we are interested in how text can exist beyond a purely linguistic sign: how it can be broken down into a pattern forming an image, as shape forming a sculpture or as the rhythm of sound in space. Our aim as Kat said earlier is to find a way for words to transcend their linguistic meaning.


In terms of how viewers have responded to our work in different countries I have found that it depended much more upon the culture of that country and its relationship to our individual nationalities than the ability to understand the language of the work. As soon as text of a specific language is present in an artwork, viewers are able to signify what culture that artwork comes from, and that can affect how the artwork is interpreted. In some ways you could say it depended upon what they were looking to find in the work as a reflection of themselves and their perception of us.


When we were preparing for the show in Russia we had to select works that made sense for a Russian speaking audience. For works in English we came up with tailored translations and I got to show text works made in Russian, which were more appropriate for that show than any other show in the UK.


I think there are a lot of different levels of translation happening in your work, especially of course with regards to Text As, where apart from using different languages you also translated words and their meanings into different materials and actions. How do these levels of translation intersect and connect for you?


These levels of translation make a lot of sense in our practice, because they eliminate direct, ordered and grammatical ways of dealing with language, which we both are not that interested in, and instead they appear as a playground full of possibilities of material, conceptual and even performative engagement.


Do you feel tied to a specific place and is place important for your work? What does London mean for your artistic practices?


Place always plays an important role in my practice because I have lived between Russia and the UK since I was 16 and a lot of my inspiration comes from the contrast of architectural, social and linguistic elements of both countries. I also feel like the theme of home and belonging has been a prevalent one in my practice, especially in my text works in the Russian language.


The location of where I am making work greatly affects the kind of things that I am thinking about and the materials that I am able to use. The spatial restrictions of where I am making something or where I am showing something creates a challenge that will feed into the end result of what I produce


For us being in London means having a great studio space that we have spent a long time looking for and then adjusting to fit our needs. It is also the city where the community of artists that we have worked and will continue to work with is based.  Also, here we have the support of institutions we are allied with and a lot of opportunities. However, it doesn’t mean that we are tied to this location and not considering the possibility of moving.



In conclusion: where do you both see your artistic practice move to?  


Working together feels incredibly empowering and makes me feel as if we can do anything, of any scale and complexity. We keep on expanding our shared practice committing to experiments and projects that I wouldn’t attempt on my own, and having each other to bounce ideas against. I see our future being full of great discoveries and challenges.


I feel as though doing the residency and working with Kat over the last three years has hugely informed my practice and opened me up to many new ideas and ways of working. It feels as if we are at the beginning of something exciting with many possibilities for the future. I wouldn’t want to close it down with anything too specific though, as I think both of us like to instinctively react to change.

You can view more of Mike & Kat’s work on their websites: & – you can find out more about Text As here: &

HIV & Stigma: an interview with Todd Lanier Lester

My name is Todd Lanier Lester and I started the project, Luv ‘til it Hurts, a two-year project on HIV & stigma. The Think Twice Collective has agreed to join the LUV ‘coalition’ … I’ll explain what that is along the way, but just wanted to say thanks for being in an open-ended conversation with me. The last project I co-made, was a five-year investigation of the right to the city in São Paulo, and also took a collective form. I enjoy the pace and other characteristics of collective decision-making. freeDimensional, a 10-year project on free expression and artist shelter was the first of a three-project set that have spanned almost 20 years. What connects the three projects is that they are all durational, rights-focused and open to multiple stakeholders. 

I really appreciate the questions Think Twice came up with and appreciate your attention to my project. 

Paula Nishijima (a Think Twice member) and I met in Milano at ENGAGE, a Public School for Social Engagement in Artistic Research hosted in October 2017 by Via Farini. Paula is Brazilian and I live in Brazil, so we started there. That was followed by a Skype chat with the group in Leiden (Netherlands), and an ensuing discussion about our ‘projects’ being in dialogue. I’d like to dive into the questions:

I started it because I’m HIV+. I started it because it is personal. But, too, I believe it can have a ‘benefit’ (as such) on a macro level. 

Todd Lanier Lester

1- What is “Luv ’til it Hurts”? Why did you start it? 

LUV is a two-year project on HIV and stigma. In the FEATURES section entitled Field Notes, I discuss some of the parameters I apply for the making of a durational, rights-focused, multi-stakeholder work. I share the ups and downs of this style of ‘making’, and try to point to ‘spots’ of learning from both my previous projects and those of other artists. I plan to keep this section going throughout the two years. In fact, these are the field notes for a book I’m writing that focuses on methodology and looks at a twenty-year period of such art making. It’s a different and related project I’m working on as I shift more into writing. I first presented the ‘hinge’ in my work between LUV and some research writing I’ve embarked upon at the Economy and Society Summer School, a weeklong doctoral symposium co-hosted by University College Cork and the Waterford Institute of Technology, bringing together scholars from diverse disciplines to discuss fresh perspectives on ‘the economy’; the market, the state, production, consumption, redistribution, value, money, work, commodities, poverty, welfare, inequality. 

[*Paula, when we met in 2017, was not quite over yet (and still isn’t:). I was already rabidly note-taking for the book, but probably didn’t yet know LUV was going to be a project in this series. I have had the idea for an HIV-related project ever since I contracted HIV in São Paulo some five years ago. In Milan I showed the Queer City film, representing an important ‘episode’ of, and actually the most rhizomatically robust of the various sub-projects/foci that comprise the five-year research platform of on the right to the city. In fact, Queer City continues still in various forms. Queer City was the way I began experimenting with HIV themes in the hybrid artistic director/curator/ administrator/producer role I assume for durational projects that I set off and forecast end dates. I proposed Queer City ‘into’ just as any of the multiple stakeholders could propose and develop ideas into action. When I use the words ‘producer’ and ‘action’ herewith, I’m referring to Walter Benjamin’s 1934 address at the Institute for the Study of Fascism (Paris), The Author as Producer.]

I can jokingly say that I’m tired of making multi-stakeholder projects. But I also plan to have fun with the last one, Luv ‘til it Hurts. What I mean is that I plan to use some of the methods and tactics from the first two projects in order to lean-down bureaucratically and shorten (to two years) the LUV project … rather abstractly. But at the same time, LUV is the most personal of the three projects I refer to here. I started it because I’m HIV+. I started it because it is personal. But, too, I believe it can have a ‘benefit’ (as such) on a macro level. 

2- How did LTIH start? 

In February of 2018 I received an unsolicited R&D grant. I had mentioned to a colleague in philanthropy that I planned to make a project, but I didn’t say what it was. This was an exciting encouragement, and frankly the first time in my 20-year practice that I have received money in advance to work on a project. That money was used for making a website and paying people. Most of the money was redistributed as re-grants to initiatives such as Humans as Hosts, Coletivo Amem, the Houses of Zion and LaBeija, participation in the 2019 holiday Love Positive Women (a project by artist, Jessica Lynn Whitbread), creation of the LUV game with a team of Egyptian designers, etc. In discussion with Taiwanese artist, Kairon Liu we decided to make a limited edition postcard set from his Humans as Hosts project, which he carried to the 2018 International AIDS Conference in Amsterdam. In a very useful way, this served to launch the two-year period of the project, and it therefore ends around the time of the next international AIDS conferences in 2020 in Mexico DF and San Francisco

I mention above (when referring to Queer City) that I have the prerogative to create/direct/lead a portion of the LUV project and invite others to participate. This includes corresponding with others and writing for/on the site; designing a game with other people; collaborative events; media partnership; playing the new game together; and sharing in the construction (um, conjuring) of the ‘end game’ of the project, which will be an artist-led, philanthropic device offered to the Elton John AIDS Foundation

At the same time, the projects have historically been flexible enough to accommodate the ideation and leadership of other artists, participants or stakeholders. Looking back at freeDimensional, somewhere around the midpoint, artist Sidd Joag was hired to direct the organization. One of the first things he did was to create new schematics for how freeDimensional explained how danger can affect global artists and how the project addressed this urgency. You can see visualizations in the 2011 Artist Residencies & Conflict Areas event publication, and they carried forward to illustrate our most comprehensive output (an artist safety guide) as a project, the freeDimensional AdvoKIT (download). For, there were similar ‘episodes’ led by other participants. For example, Zona da Mata is a project by artist Rodrigo Bueno who participated in one specific way focused on the environment. Another way to see this is that participated in Rodrigo’s project for the year, 2016. And, Episódio Haiti was led by Raphael Daibert who participated in all the activities of, having helped to launch the project from the beginning. This was natural as his focus is on migrations.

Here you asked me how it started and I’m about to tell you how it will end. One is that we might be able to say something about the philanthropic device by the time of the AIDS conferences. In fact, I’m working on a graphic zine with artist Niki Singleton that should be ready by February 14, Valentine’s Day 2020. By that time we will amp up our plan to reach Elton, and in the meantime someone will hopefully ‘steal this idea’ and run with it. What I’m saying is that the duration, start and end dates are both important and somewhat arbitrary. The projects don’t stop on a dime. And, if they are launched well–at least inter-planetarily or intergalactically–they keep advancing even after the end date. These ‘durations’ allow for a form of accountability to the stakeholders, communities and demographics that the projects include and address. 

Don’t you think there are enough ‘global’ things, organizations and such? If what constitutes art can sometimes be called an art world, shouldn’t we perhaps board the first spaceship out?

Todd Lanier Lester

3- Why is it an “interplanetary” project? and why “galactic”?

I am working with an old friend. Here is where I brag on a buddy, Adham Bakry. He is mentioned in this article, Street Art Illuminates Egypt’s Lingering Problems. Check him out. When freeDimensional was moving around (it had mobile desks for a year each in ‘residency’ in the Middle East and Cairo specifically at the Townhouse Gallery and South America via a residency at Casa das Caldeiras in São Paulo) I met Adham and he did some of the original design work for freeDimensional in Cairo, joining the team for the remainder of the project. He then drew the first schematic for me when dreaming up  There was a lot going on in both regions at the time in residency field, and these two cities provided a look into the regions. Around that time I led the writing of desk studies on residency practice in each region for some partners whose names I forget. I should find those two documents for my site:)

The idea for came, of course during my freeDimensional residency in 2008 at Casa das Caldeiras. My friend Joel Borges who created TodoDomingo at Casa das Caldeiras (as well as its international residency and various community programs) both welcomed me on that 2008 residency and has been a part of the ideation for from the beginning. He serves as the President of the Associação Espaço Cultural Lanchonete (the cultural association/ entity under Brazilian law) until now.

So for one, I’m working with partners and friends who have been stakeholders to past projects. I’m asking them to perform in certain ways, perhaps building on past actions. I raise money to pay them:) I’ve asked them to help guide me … to help me get the maximum out of the idea based on how we know how to work together. 

Adham and I know how to make interplanetary and intergalactic projects. I had to urge him to give me first designs early and not perfect them. I wanted it a little raw. But too we agreed on a face-to-face design session that was this past March. I would go to Egypt (Port Said) and see into his current project, a popular heritage museum with a revolutionary mentality. Pedagogy and learning and local change. I would engage his project at the level I wanted him to engage mine. We would eat fish together at the Suez Canal and take our bikes on the ferry to Asia. I would understand what he’s going through, and he would understand the same in me. We would care for each other at that basic level. We would reconnect a little before making work together. We would break bread… to go with the fish. I would meet his wonderful colleagues on the museum project and revive my interest in the Arabic language. 

In the richness of ideas that comprised those days in Port Said and Cairo, an idea sprung up for a game. It came from Saif, a 23-year old guy from Port Said, but with Cairo-savvy. He said, why not model it after Exquisite Corpse, a game I’ve come to learn is played all over the world … sometimes with image continuation and others with words. Before I even understood what he meant, he gave me the scenario of going into a Cairo cafe and seeing an iconic sticker/tile on the back of a laptop, and it referencing the LUV project, or game as it were. That one would know that the person with the laptop was cool with HIV .. or something like that. You all at Think Twice are thinking about language. I was in Port Said in a café w/ Saif, Adham and others. I was acting a little queer. I had black fingernails. The manager turned off the radio, and waited for us to leave. So, Saif is not wrong to consider a ‘safe’ way to play, as such…

Or, another answer as question: Don’t you think there are enough ‘global’ things, organizations and such? If what constitutes art can sometimes be called an art world, shouldn’t we perhaps board the first spaceship out?

4- What is the aim of the “coalition”?  

The coalition is for doing exactly what we are doing. For having a discussion. You’ve asked me some questions that find me in a methodological and rather light mood. I’m heading to NYC soon to launch a publication on Artist Safety Hosting and it’s been a throw-back to some earlier ideas. The coalition is for ‘doing something’, and I’d really like for folks involved to understand what I want to do with the philanthropic device, and perhaps lend a hand. But at the very least they should play the game with us. 

5- How are you featuring this “gamification” in your work?  

Saif and I jammed on the game idea sitting in a circle of ten guys on the floor drinking the booze Adham had gotten at the airport using my ticket stub for duty free. We watched videos and smoked hash. Some of us did. I laughed at what, in Arabic, made them laugh. We spent time together. By the next day in the office Adham was ‘on it’ .. he doesn’t like the virtual side of things (preferring the street stencil), so he wasn’t thinking anonymous, multiplayer (online), but rather the logic of the game and design of the tiles. What might become iconic and end up on the back of a laptop. In Cairo or New Delhi in a cafe. Adham poo-poos the idea of a virtual game, while introducing me to ‘his game guy’ Sanjay in New Delhi, saying ‘he’s the one who can do that for you … I’m doing the first part.’

Here’s the design challenge I posed to Adham and his team. I was already almost sure I would treat the LUV project in three acts, and that Adham’s (and the ensuing game) would be ACT I. I had come to Port Said to get some work done, big picture work. The challenge:

I’m making a philanthropic device in the midst of the LUV project, which should also be a discussion. We should talk about what we need, and what we can do / offer. We should make a new ‘device’ to help out. On HIV and stigma. As artists. And/or poz people. 

HIV is personal. By March I was already 9+ months into the project. I told Adham’s team that I would pull back on broad stakeholder outreach. I would seek out partners from past projects, but not specific to HIV ideas and work. I would reconfigure a team or ‘agency’ for the purpose of getting to the end(game), the device. I can say better later how Acts II and III move the process along. 

I told Adham’s team that I needed an ‘activity’, something to do with a public. Something that would enlist stakeholders in a way I’d not tried before, one in which I did not ‘front’ each conversation. The activity would allow me to ‘deploy’ the evolving process of device-making into various contexts (art world and non). It should be good. It should look nice. It should open up online, social media and PR opportunities through its application. It should stand alone. It should be fun. A game. 

It should be something so simple (perhaps more so than the philanthropic device that takes a whole two years to make) that it would open up countless new discussions that cannot be generated outside discussion. 

OK, so we (Paula N. and I) talked, and I asked if Think Twice would be interested in helping to launch the game. The game is ready. You can get the gist of it in Thank you to Lois Weaver (ample version), and if you all are game, I’ll get you a game pack in the coming weeks. We already know that it launches in Grenoble on October 25th in French and Arabic, and hopefully Bogotá on the same day with Daniel Santiago’s project, Luciérnagas. So, I’m sure we can find a unique way to engage between LUV and Think Twice in this general timeframe and direction. It could take the format we find most useful. It could work/aim toward your potential meeting next Spring on the topic of language. 

There are lots of ‘language’ angles in the project. 

I think that if you give me the ‘go ahead’, I’ll consider how to communicate the game to Think Twice as we are developing ‘packets’ for Grenoble and Bogotá, so relatively soon. We are launching the game online on this year’s World AIDS Day, December 1. As well. Think Twice and the coalition can be a part of that. Somehow. The game changes as the ACT progresses, so we should really just play, and you’ll see. 

6- What is action research and how is it developed and/or materialised in the project? 

Oh gosh, what is algebra?  I’m kidding. I was reading an article the other day that called ‘artistic research’ a discipline, area and method all in the same article without differentiating usage. Action research is perhaps related to grounded theory or various participatory methods. I figure phenomenology is a part of it. I am working on a book and PhD at the same time. The book is called Variations in Worldmaking. The PhD is in Sociology. My advisor, Maggie O’Neill has experience in action research. With all that in the ‘soup pot’, I decided to ask Maggie if she could help me tease out characteristics of my methodology, the methods I practice with, by keeping an eye on the LUV project. I produce writing on the overall book, but she knows that until the end of the two-year period (until July 2020) I have to give special attention to the final project in the three-part series. I let her know when I post new field notes online. But it is my responsibility to pull those into the research I’m working on. It is my design to have the final project, action-like hinge with the research that uses the timeframe of the three projects taken together, as well as their rights-focused themes and those taken up by other artists interviewed for the research. What a mouthful.

7- What are your other projects you inspired yourselves to when you founded LTIH? 

The artists who got together in various ways like the Treatment Action Campaign, ACT UP, VisualAIDS and many other activist and artist-led (or fully included) endeavors. I want to give a part of myself to help out. I want to do it in a way that invites others to join me. Something like that. I think at a later stage in our discussion I’ll be able to share the short list of artists I’m interviewing for the Variations book. That would be another way to answer. 

8- what’s the difference between you and these projects? 

Not much. That’s good and bad. I have a playful writing project coming called El Mejor Karate. It will have a site. It will have some things to say about the ‘splitting’ we do and don’t do as artists when we make immersive projects. Adham is involved in it. It’s coming soon. The website will be someday soon. 

The ‘art world’ (as such) is not a place that automatically gives care. I think one needs to have support to make a project that touches on the ‘autobiographical’ … I chose sociology for its ability to accommodate personal narrative. 

Todd Lanier Lester

9- How does this ‘personal aspect’ you mention influence the methodology or the way how you engage the stakeholders in relation to the previous two projects?

Up above I mentioned the design challenge I went to Adham and team with. Working on HIV elicits emotions amongst the artists and activists who share their stories. I want to think that multiple stories can be told through LUV. In the beginning however, I ran at it too hard. I got bruised by some of the initial engagements. In some of my field notes, I speak about this ‘emotional heat’ that I see as both essential but also to be ‘handled with care’. If this seems vague, please make sure to read the Benjamin text I’ve mentioned above. I think it is fair to say that the first two projects hold themes that affect me but don’t infect me. That’s a bit crass I suppose. I care about artist housing and safe haven, and would want it if I needed it (freeDimensional). I love cities and living in them. I pretend to live between NYC and São Paulo after all. To have my eyes open (in these two places and others I travel to) is to be in a discussion on the right to the city. But for LUV I need some space. If it gets too hot for me, I don’t produce. Ask me more, and I’ll be explicit about what I mean. The ‘art world’ (as such) is not a place that automatically gives care. I think one needs to have support to make a project that touches on the ‘autobiographical’ … I chose sociology for its ability to accommodate personal narrative. 

10- What would you say is the necessary quality, in order to be able to contribute in the LTIH projects? 

Help me make some noise. Ask hard /nice questions like these. Let’s find a discursive way to launch the game together in your context. I travel to the Netherlands a lot. I’ve spoken at Leiden once. In the process of my research in Cork, we are engaging the gallery at the university. When I was last in Cork (second city in Ireland), I was on Grindr and someone thanked me for sharing my HIV status. When I talk to my colleagues in Cork (the ones involved with my research), I ask them, ‘what do we need here?’ There is a conversation to be had in Cork, Ireland. There is a conversation to be had in Leiden, Netherlands. Please oh, please do not let us keep this at the treetops of discussion. With an old colleague I’m discussing how the game travels with a theatre piece around Zimbabwe. Let me discuss now with you, new colleagues how the game plays out in your context. 

11- How can interested people contribute to the project and collaborate with LTIH?

Make LUV.